STACHYBOTRYS WEB SITE:  Posts of Joseph P. Klein, Sr. M.D

2.  If there is any question of toxicity whatsoever, then you and your family should exit your
    current enviornment immediately; and, do not bring any of your old possessions, 
    especially including clothing, books, furniture,bedding etc. (this will be further discussed 
    in another post).

3. You should seek medical attention from a qualified expert, but getting out of the 
    enviornment should be your top priority.

4. Persons affected by mold (especially the mycotoxins of mold) tend to severely 
    underestimate the dangers from their exposure.

5. They tend to make their move far too late.

6.  When they are eventually forced to move, they tend to make the mistake of taking their
     possessions - especially ones made of paper, cardboard, animal fibers (clothing), leather, 
     and similar materials which the mold can readily grow on. This causes cross contamination 
     of their new environment, and the process repeats itself. 

7. If you are symptomatic form your mold exposure, get away from it.  You can replace the 
    material things, but you may not be able to replace your health!
 

Toxic symptoms are due to mycotoxins on the mold spores. They can include: memory loss ; attention deficit/concentration problems ; personality changes such as irritability or depression; neurological disorders such as tremors; tingling or burning of nose, mouth; chronic fatigue; dizziness; nausea/vomiting; bleeding in the lungs; suppression of the immune system; headache; flu-like symptoms; red eyes (without watering or itching); incoordination; muscle spasms and cramps; damage to internal organs. Toxic symptoms from these mycotoxins have similarities to toxic symptoms from poisoning. Stachybotrys spores produce multiple mycotoxins, including trichothecenes. Trichothecenes have been produced commercially for use in biological warfare. These are strong neurotoxins. Mycotoxins are nearly all cytotoxic, disrupting various cellular structures such as membranes, and interfering with vital cellular processes such as protein, RNA and DNA synthesis 

If you were to meet a person suffering from allergy to mold, that person would most likely complain of symptoms similar to those of ‘hay fever’. Those symptoms are detailed above under “allergic symptoms”. The symptoms would most likely be described as annoying (with varying degrees of annoyance); they would not, however, be described as devastating. Their symptoms would be rather straight forward , easily observable and easily understandable. 

If you were to meet a person suffering from toxicity due to mold mycotoxins, your first impression might be that the person is affected by a mental problem. Your first thought might be that the person would be best off consulting a psychiatrist or a psychologist. The person might have a lot of vague symptoms – symptoms way out of proportion to what you could observe – symptoms that might be difficult for the affected person to explain and for you to understand. But, the underling theme, if you listened carefully, would be that of toxicity. Most likely the toxic person would complain of extreme fatigue, weakness, tiredness, flu-like symptoms, and often respiratory problems: but not usually coughing or wheezing. Instead, he/she would complain of terrible burning or soreness in his/her lungs, possibly aggravated with exertion or exercise. And, instead of telling you that the experience was one of annoyance (to a lesser or greater degree) as allergy sufferers would tell you, the toxic sufferer would more likely describe her/his experience as a hellish nightmare. 

 The toxic sufferer’s behavior would more likely be that of a frantic effort to get away from the contaminated source and an almost paranoiac effort to rid themselves of contaminated materials. This is in stark contrast to the allergic sufferer who would most likely find the offending mold to be more of a nuisance rather than a substance sent from hell. 
 

2. You must be sure to accurately identify the mold(s); they could include Stachybotrys and/ 
    or other toxic  molds.  Make sure that the lab testing your enviornment  is familiar with the 
    identification of stachybotrys and/or other toxic molds.

3. Don't disturb the mold or try to treat it yourself. If it is stachybotrys and you disturb it, you 
    may cause the mold to sporulate (produce a bioaerosol).The spores can be extremely toxic 
    and damaging to susceptible individuals. 

4. If it is stachybotrys, (and this may be also true for other toxic species) don't take anything 
    with you when you move. This may sound harsh, but if you bring items contaminated with 
    stachybotrys spores into your new environment you still may stay sick and you may
    have to repeat the process all over.  Although, the spores are not living, they are much 
    more toxic than the living mold as they carry strong mycotoxins which can cause all the 
    symptoms you describe.  The items I have found to be especially bad are all paper products
    including books, magazines, files of papers,  cardboard, news papers and so forth.  Also, 
    the mold clings to fabric such as stuffed furniture, bedding, carpet, and clothing.  You may 
    get away with items that have smooth surfaces and that are easily washable such as dishes, 
    pots, pans, glasses, sliverware etc.

5. The precautions I mentioned in item #4 are from my own personal experience with 
    stachybotrys and may not apply to other molds or all individuals exposed to stachybotrys. 
    However, if you do find stachybotrys,  and as both you and your child are quite 
    symptomatic, I would give very serious thought to item #4.  Also, I  know that there are 
    others exposed to stachybotrys who have had similar experiences.

1. they are non-porous (they have durable, smooth surfaces)

2. they contain no cellulose or other organic material such as paper, cardboard, wood, 
    leather, cotton, wool, wall board etc.

3. they could be thoroughly washed in a washing machine.

4. Such items would include glass ware, dishes, silverware, CD ROMS, coins etc.
   There are at least two important considerations when one deals with this mold. 

  (1). How long do the spores remain potentially viable once they are released from the living 
         stachybotrys mold?

The best answer I have received regarding this is: "Stachybotrys spores can suvive for at least a year after release. However, the viability does decline with time. The environment they arein will affect survival and rate of decline." 

Thus, any item you try to salvage can carry some spores that potentially could germinate, under the right conditions, in your new enviornment. 

   (2). How long do the mycotoxins on stachybotrys spores remain potent after the spores are 
         discharged into the air? 

The best answer I have received regarding this is: "The trichothecene toxins are very stable. Again the environment matters, if stored dry, there is little loss of activity for a year." 
Thus, if mycotoxins on the mold cause you symptoms, if you carried some of the dead spores on the material you tried to salvage, that material could continue to make you ill for as long as the mycotoxins remained potent. 

The answers, in quotations, were kindly provided by Mr. Stephen Vesper of the EPA. 
Finally, there is no question that Five percent sodium hypochlorite (bleach) will kill live mold. But, that dosen't solve your problem. You need to denature the mycotoxins on the mold spores that are on your contaminated material. This requires a substance that can denature the mycotoxins, while preserving the material beeing treated. I haven't found the answer to this question with any degree of reasonable certianty. 

I have tried to salvage some clothing, but it has been difficult, risky, time consuming and in many cases failed, causing me a great deal of grief. I managed to salvage some super silk shirts (100% polyester) by repeated washings. In retrospect, it probably wasn't worth the effort. Very porous clothing, such as sweaters, even of the synthetic variety, don't seem to respond to a reasonable number of washings, at least in my experience. Using bleach on these clothing doesn't seem to help insofar as toxicity is concerned. And, forget paper products, such as books, articles, magazines, miscellaneous papers etc. 

My problem now is that I can't go near, much less work with, any paper or books 
contaminated by the mold spores. This includes medical books, charts, magazines 
etc. If I do get exposed become ill again anywhere from a few days to a few 
weeks, depending upon the intensity and length of exposure.

I found that with each exposure I got, my sensitivity would increase; that is, 
it would take increasingly smaller amounts of the mycotoxins on the spores to
make me ill.

Also, I have become sensitized to incredibly small quantities of smoke.  If I
get a few whiffs of smoke from a cigarette, cigar or chimney (smoke from a 
fireplace), I'll get symptoms of fatigue, malaise, flu-like symptoms and eve
more severe burning in the chest with exertion for a few hours to a day or two.

Regarding treatment, the five most effective measures are:

1. avoidance of living mold
2. avoidance of the mold spores
3. avoidance of contaminated items 
4. avoidance of smoke
5. avoidance of fatigue (getting enough sleep)

The next five measures are:

6. inhalation ipatropium bromide (four times daily in a nebulizer)
7. inhalation albuterol sulfate (four times daily in a nebulizer)
8. inhalation fluticasone propionate 500 mcg and samletrol 50 mcg (powder), 2 
puffs daily (Advaid Diskus 500/50)
9. Theophylline 200-300 mg daily in divided doses
10. Being careful to get enough potassium and calcium (combination of diet & 
pills)
 

My wife and two sons were living in a new home (they had moved out of our original, old,  highly contaminated home). However, the new home my family was residing in did have a considerable amount of items that were taken from our old, contaminated home.  These included clothing, bedding, books, files, shoes, an automobile, computers etc.

At this point my wife began to visit me on weekends.  The procedure was that she would take a shower at the old home, put on new clothes, come to my new home, remove her clothes in the garage, enter the house, re-shower and then put on new clothes.  This seemed to work.  However, I did notice what I thought might be a little contamination in our bedding, especially the pillow cases.  This didn’t seem too significant at the time.  I might add that my wife has a very short, although still quite feminine, haircut.

Next, I decided to move one of my sons in with me while we were making arrangements to get rid of the house my wife was still in. My son had long hair; and, I convinced him to get it cut short. He is hygienically fastidious – he takes a shower and shampoo at night , before retiring, and in the morning upon arising.  We followed the same procedure as with my wife.  At the house he moved from he used an entire bottle of shampoo before coming to my new, clean house.  He was also willing to dip his hair in bleach, alcohol or whatever, but I didn’t think that was a good idea. I thought, that with all these precautions, the plan would work. 

My son followed my directions exactly.  He brought absolutely nothing with him except his skin and his hair!  I started to get ill again, but nothing horrendous.  It took about  three or four months until I was back to where I was before he moved in.  I never realized how much hair we shed until I lived in an all white tile world.  I now believe that hair is an excellent carrier of  the mycotoxins.

Next, my older son (age 19) came to my house.  He had long, black, oily hair.  He agreed to have his head completely shaved.  The evening of his move from the contaminated house to my new, uncontamined house, his mother completely shaved his head. Immediately after his shower, he put on a new set of clothes that had been placed in a double layer of plastic trash bags.  He then walked to my new house, about 1/4 mile from the contaminated house. Outside the garage he placed his shoes (an inexpensive pair of flip flops from Wal-Mart) in a trash bag and sealed it. He then came through the garage along a path of several layers of old newspaper. He then removed all of his clothes, put them in a trash bag, entered the house and walked on a path of plastic trash bags to the bathroom.  He then took an extended shower and put on new clothing.  All of the paper and trash bags he had walked on were placed in doubly sealed trash bags and disposed of, as was the clothing he had worn while making the trip to my uncontaminated house.  I am happy to report that this proceedure was 100% effective and I had absolutely no toxic reaction to his presence. Also, it turns out that he now actually likes his hair to be very short crew cut.
 
 

My suggestions:

1. Cut your hair short and shampoo as often as you can stand it. Better yet, shave your head and use a wig.

2. Wash, wash & wash your bedding.  If you can afford some vinyl pillow & matress coverings, get them.

3. Bag up your electronics for now to take them out of the equation.

4. Your automobile, also, could be a continuing source of contamination. Decontaminating an automobile depends upon the level of contamination, the areas of the automobile that are contaminated and your sensitivity levels.  If the comnamination is not too severe you might be able to thoroughly vacuum it , clean all hard surfaces and install seat covers. I have a car that was probably very mildly contaminated from material on my hair and clothes. I went through a cleaning process as described above and installed new seat covers throughout the entire car. Also, I removed the old floormats and installed rubber, easily cleanable, floor mats.  Also, I vacuumed the ceiling on multiple occassions.  The trunk was thoroughly cleaned, also.

5. If you have any pets, espically those that live in the house, their hair/fur could certianly carry spores with mycotoxins. When you move, best is to get rid of the pet(s) and not to a place that you are planning to visit again, as you pet will surely contaminate that place. Also, you could consider shaving the pet's hair completely off and then bathing it multiple times. Further,  I am not able to comment upon how or if pets can be sanatized to the point whereby a person who is very sensitive to the mold's mycotoxins can eventually tollerate the pet(s).

More to come….. Story did not end here……
 

This is an interesting post that attempts to address this issue.  However, this issue is by no means resolved.

I would like to address the issue of mycotoxin exposure and the potential underlying human toxicosis mechanism(s). I hope that someone with medical and scientific expertise may be able to respond to some of my questions posed below: 

1. Are mycotoxins (e.g., trichothecenes) volatile?  I recall reading in an article recently that these compounds are not volatile, and are a subset of the sesquiterpene family of chemicals. 

2. If they are not volatile, then they will not be freely floating through the air (e.g., thermodynamics). Thus, they may only become airborne if they are condensed onto, or encased in, something that is aerosolized, such as a spore or particle of dust or fragment of mold. They would not be able to nucleate if they cannot become vaporized. It is also very likely/possible that dust particles will have many spores stuck onto them. It does not seem very likely that themselves will stick the mycotoxins to the surface of the dust particles, unless they are attached to the outer surface of a spore or fragment of mold.

3. Does anyone know where mycotoxins reside with relation to a spore? Are they encased, or attached to the surface?   I have recently seen some postings suggesting that mycotoxins may be difficult to remove from clothing. 

4. Is this a result of them being encased in spores that are tightly bound to clothing, or are they themselves tightly bound to the clothing without the spores?   I have also been reading about how Cholestyramine may help rid the body of such toxic invaders by binding directly to these molecules more tightly than they would bind to cells. The Cholestyramine-toxin complex may then be flushed from the body, thus eliminating the supply of the re-uptake route of the toxin that causes it to be chronic. 

5. If this were the case, then wouldn't it make sense that surfactant molecules (e.g., soap in the detergent) would also be able to bind to them in a similar fashion during a wash cycle when/if they are bound to clothing? If they are encased in a spore, then wouldn't the enzymes in the detergent digest the spores and release the mycotoxins, which would then bind to the surfactants and rinse out? I would imagine that Cholestyramine is less effective than surfactant, since it can be ingested, and if not, wouldn’t there be something that could be added to a laundry cycle to rid the clothes of such toxins that is at least as effective as Cholestyramine? Worst case, should we be adding Cholestyramine to our laundry? I do not know the answers to these questions, but suspect that a very minimal amount of research would be needed to find them out. Since high priced remediation experts seem to be cropping up from every direction, wouldn't it even profitable for someone, or some company, to look into this and come up with a new product? Even if they cleared a very large margin, the cost of the product would not be very great, especially if it guaranteed to rid clothes of these toxins/spores/mold, which would have been otherwise thrown away.   Paul

Doug Haney Replied:

Paul, Your post is interesting.  I have asked the same question but in a bit different way now to many experts.  Essentially the main issue as I see it is if mycotoxins are present can they be removed with the spores or do they have a permeable effect upon those items in which they would be present. There are two experts in the field of mycotoxins that I have found; one in Finland and the other in France. Neither will say definitively an absolute stance on this subject.  Further both differ on whether typically mycotoxins are water-soluble.  Denaturing trichothecene is very difficult, however if it is removed with the spores and has no permeable effect, then theoretically it shouldn't matter.  However no one knows for sure.  If mycotoxins have a permeable effect upon materials in which they are found, then the implications are very bad.  It would logically mean therefore that all remediation protocols which are in existence have to be throw out and re written and that building materials are NOT salvageable.  There are several articles on Mycotoxins, which you can read, but none address your (or my) question.  This said, even the detection of mycotoxins isn't an exact science and there is only 1 lab in the US that I know of which will do it at a cost of $250 each. Further they will tell you that they don't promise that they will even find them.  This is not an easy issue to resolve.  Most experts that you ask believe that the mycotoxins bind to the spores and then are removed with the spores.  However this opinion is not based on ANY research.  More "gut" hunches.  There are obvious problems with issuing such opinions; either way.  Hope that helps.. 

Are there any other mold victims whose experience parallels yours?

"It's absolutely awesome to hear someone else describe the ability of 
hair to maintain and transport the mold. I found that wool garments 
are no different.

I noticed that some contaminated places give me a huge "hit" but that 
I could walk away and recover without decontamination. Other places 
might hit me less, but I would carry the "reaction" with me. This led 
me to believe that the neurotoxic reaction was to aerosolized 
mycotoxins and not necessarily inhalation of spores.

I tested this by placing a contaminated article in HEPA filters and 
taking it to my "clean" place. I put it under six layers of blankets 
and slept on it. I got the usual reaction and removed the article but 
went back to sleep on the same blankets. The reaction was gone.
This convinced me that that spores had not penetrated the filter or 
blankets and that the toxic gas was truly my primary irritant.
This was confirmed by Dr Marinkovich who told me that a housing 
project in Sweden had recently been identified with sick inhabitants 
but no spores could be found. Only when the walls were opened up were 
the colonies found, but they were so tightly sealed in the walls that 
only the toxic gas could escape.

Many places that give me mold hits are strictly VOC hits and not 
spores. When I leave these areas I do not have to bother with 
decontamination.

-Erik"

===================================================

From: "erik_johnson_96140" <erikj6@earthlink.net> 
Date:  Wed, 22 May 2002 21:34:04 –0000
To:     sickbuildings@yahoogroups.com

"My experience was that Joe is absolutely right about the necessity of 
sensitized individuals to avoid mycotoxins.
I tried low level ozone and other products that claimed to denature 
the toxins in addition to killing the spores and they didn't work.
But, I find that many of my possessions that I had horrible reactions 
to have lost their toxicity over a period of years.
Don't destroy anything that is precious to you. Just pay the cost of
storage.
The toxins seem to "adsorb" onto certain plastics (see Van der Waals 
forces) and cannot be washed off.
It has taken between three and five years of storage for me to be able 
to use these items (depending on the quality of plastic), but there is 
almost no object that I cannot now tolerate. (The only exception is a 
computer)

-Erik"

=====================================================

From: "erik_johnson_96140" <erikj6@earthlink.net> 
Date:  Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:09:53 -0000
To:     epistrophy1@yahoo.com

"Dr Marinkovich's treatment is Lamisil or Sporonox.  The avoidance protocols you have outlined are far superior to any advice I ever got from him.

-Erik"
 
 

Air Sampling: Particle Counts:

Typical Data:

· Outside Building:  300,000 particles/cu. ft.
· Inside building: 
   o 100,000/cu. ft (commercial building)
   o   10,000/cu ft (HEPA)
   o     1,000/cu ft (semiconductor facility)

=====================================================
From: USK8@aol.com 
Date:  Mon, 3 Jun 2002 11:10:41 EDT 
To:     sickbuildings@yahoogroups.com

"Any airborne stachy is too much. That fungus does not become airborne unless it is disturbed. Once it is disturbed the production of mycotoxins will become intense. These toxins have devastating effects on humans and pets, they are used in bio-warfare. Unfortunately for us, the toxins have been reported as extremely stable. The mold can be dead but the toxin survives and continues to damage our nervous system and body. Please be careful with any contents from you previous home. I will sincerely hope that you left everything behind. I would never advise anyone to retain any clothing or bedding from a contamination site with stachy. I am only a victim of this mess not a professional, but I can assure you that the damage to your health will cost more than all your belongings. Do your antibody tests show that you are still being exposed? Do you know that your current residence is  completely safe? I wish you the very best."
 

(Question courtesy of MariannM)
 

1. running a mile without severe burning in my lungs 
2. walking an average of five miles per day on the level 
3. hiking an extra six to seven miles three times per week in mountainous terrain
4. working in the outpatient department, but not surgery due to smoke from the electrocautery
5. go into most public places unless there is smoke, certain fragrances or certain volatile organic compounds 
6. intellectual functioning is 100%+ of normal
7. function without my previous crushing fatigue
8. sleep soundly
9. not having to deal with severe and constant muscle cramps including calf muscles, intrinsic foot and hand muscles (mainly involving fingers and toes) and occasionally volar forearm muscles

Things I still have trouble with, but which are improving:

1. Lack of endurance for physical tasks involving upper body strength such as lifting,        shoveling, digging, carrying, washing a car, mowing a lawn etc.
2. Must carefully avoid smoke, especially cigarette, cigar, burning wood (brush fires, fire places) and barbecues.
3. Must avoid the fumes from hair conditioners and products involved in hair coloration
4. Must avoid strong fragrances.
5. Must absolutely avoid mold.